The Honda Owners Club

My vote (despite being part-time employed and the rest self-employed) is still in favour...

I'd like to take the best of both sides of the argument.... the increased wages AND the Bank Holidays.... but that would be like having me cake and eating it now wouldn't it....

Mmmm... cake....

Yep, I agree you Alan,I am in a similar position and actually do enjoy my job.....but I also enjoy my days off to go and ride my bike!

Hi,

Before I reply to Skipper's response I would like to say that I have no intention, nor desire, to start a war or cause upset to anyone over this posting and hope we can continue to discuss matters in a grown up and friendly manner. So here goes:

Firstly, anyone who is monthly paid receives 1/12th of their annual salary in order to simplify wage admistration, as it is much easier than calculating for each month. Therefore one should not expect to see a reduction each February nor feel that they owe their employers anything for meeting contractual obligations. Most salaried workers actually work more hours than contracted, in addition to travelling to and from Business trips in their own time, not to mention the work they often bring home with them. I for one average 50 hours per week and have worked 58 hours this week alone, so I see no reason why I owe my employer anything nor give up anymore than is necessary or my own free time or holiday entitlement.

Secondly, I work out that February 29th is a free day to us by the simple fact that each day is longer than the 24 hour system in operation. As we have already worked our contractual obligations in line with agreed terms and conditions, plus the unpaid overtime, etc. for each day, then that bit of extra time lost each day is in fact our own free time. In reality it is banked for us until after 4 years, there is sufficient equivalent to one full day and as it is made up of all our lost bits of free time, then surely it should belong to us and therfore we ought to be entitled to decide what to do with it. Me, I wish to take it as a days holiday. You, it would appear would be happy to work it. That is your decision of which I respect and have no desire to argue over it.

Re the rest of your comments, I am saddened to hear of such misery and it reminds me of a book I once read by Charles Dickens.

Bay Humbug

You're unlikely to start a war with me, despite making ridiculous statements comparing my opinions with the books of that well known author. Rather than doing that, some explanation of why you think that my desire to get a fair day's work for a fair day's pay are so worthy of ridicule.

Everybody in my employ is paid well over the minimum wage and, not being bound by any fixed rates, I am able to give my best performing employees the extra reward on top of that which they earn and are therefore, in my opinion, entitled to. I am happy to do it. What's Victorian about that?

A salaried employee agrees to work for an agreed sum in exchange for a year's work. That's a calendar year, no matter how many days are in it, how the weekends and bank holidays fall, or even if it's a leap year. That's what you signed up for, so stick to it. Your employer has to. Averages work both ways, not just when it suits you.

I'm not quite sure why you raised the point about any extra hours you work. I don't see the relevance because it's your choice. Your contract of employment should state your hours of work, in fact I think that is a legal requirement, so, if it is such a bone of contention for you, then you must go to your employer and demand that they stick to the contracted hours.

If you manage to negotiate yourself an extra day off now and again in recompense for those extra hours then I will have no argument with you. In that case you think you're worth it, and your employer will have agreed. Everybody's happy. No problem.

I don't ask for anything other than a level playing field. One example, if you find a better job you are perfectly entitled to hand in your notice and go and take it. If your employer finds a better employee then why shouldn't he be entitled to take them on and get rid of you?

No, I don't like the system we have, but I accept that it isn't going to change because too many people have a vested interest in the status quo, but that's the way it is, and I have learned to live with it. That doesn't make it right though.

This argument could go on for a long time as I certainly don't agree with anything you've said and am sure you will reciprocate the same, so I supose we shall have to agree to differ unless its against unwritten rules to be able to surrender. One thing I would say is that whilst having a bit of fun winding one up, I do think I am being a bit petty, but then again I am a Yorkshireman. Hey, you don't think our differences could be anything to do with that North/South divide thing do you

You disappont me kid. I was hoping for a longer argument than that.


Oh well, back to exploiting the downtrodden staff I suppose.

We can still agree to argue if you like and in continuation therefore I raised this subject this morning with everyone at work, including my boss, all of whom agreed with my reasoning, although my boss did smile, happily declaring that the system means that I could never win unless I was able to change it, (which is highly unlikely), and therefore he looks forward to getting more work out of me for nowt every February 29th. Which means that you as an employer will always benefit from this free day, so there's no wonder why you don't want to agree with me

Hoping for some more yes votes though and input from others

I think Kido alluded to it, but perhaps didn't explain it well enough why we should have Feb 29th as a free day (which gets my vote )

Just think why we have a 29th Feb every 4 years?

Because natures year is actually 1/4 of a day longer than the calender year (or as near as makes no difference to this discussion, I believe that every once in a blue moon they have to insert another extra day)

So, every year we "lose" a 1/4 day because of the Gregorian Calander.

Every leap year we get that 4 x 1/4 back as an extra day, that we have already bought & paid for and worked for.

Surely we are entitiled to have it back to do whetver we wish with

kidof55 wrote:Which means that you as an employer will always benefit from this free day, so there's no wonder why you don't want to agree with me

Wrong. I derive no benefit from leap years. I have no salaried staff on principle, so they all automatically got five days pay for the week which contained February 29th. Not so Dickensian now eh?

If you think about it, I've never said that I want to benefit from this extra day, although I will still dispute that it's free. Again, all I want is fairness and equality for both employer and employee in a simple to understand and administer system.

Perhaps I didn't explain clearly above, but what I would like to see is bank holidays eliminated, but pay increased to compensate, so that no-one is worse off on an annual basis.

So, under my system, you will still be able to take your annual holiday entitlement, plus eight extra days, and be financially no worse off. What's the problem with that?

In fact there are advantages for you.

1. With no fixed statutory holidays, you could take your eight extra days whenever you liked. We as bikers could have them in the summer during good weather, and skiing enthusiasts could take them in the winter, etc etc.

2. By being paid for every day you turn up for work, you would actually get paid for February 29th!




Alan,

You don't lose a quarter of a day every year. You gain it. Those few extra seconds per day are your free time to do with as you will.

If you spent that quarter of a day per year at work then, yes, I could agree that you are due to be paid it back. But you don't, do you? So why should your employer be obliged to pay you again for time you have already had off?

my head hurts...

... think I need a day off ....

Thats right Alan D and thanks for your support and yes vote. Can't understand why Skipper still disputes that it's a free day but in considering why I posted this topic I suppose its because the current system is unfair and perhaps Skippers idea could be fairer. BUT, we should be entitled to do as we wish with our free day and if that is to work, then fine for those who want to, in order to gain an extra days pay and for those who don't,(such as me), then they should be allowed to take it off, (without pay of course). The only down fall though is that there is a large majority of salaried workers who could never manage working a normal fixed hours week, due to dealing with matters arising and incontigencies, etc., so would have to be paid unsheduled overtime, as and when necessary, in order to achieve their targets. I know that employers would never agree to this as it would cause financial havoc and the reason for having salaried staff is to keep the wage bill within budget.
Sorry for inducing your headache Shellshine but thanks for your yes vote anyway. Lets hope to see some more.

So Chimpy votes for Groundhog day, but only if its on 29th Feb ?