The Honda Owners Club

So as not clog up a thread elsewhere (which started about the forum calender, in Management Questions) I have started a new thread here

@ Barry

Surely the idea of a club is to meet socially and partake in an activity with people of a like mind with respect to that activity

Yes, granted, there will always be varing degree's of attitude between the club members but you are coming across, intentionally or not, as believing that newbies should be left to fend for themselves, that seems to me to be a very self-centered attitude and in which case why belong to a club in the first place, unless of course it's the "Barry Appreciation Club" as being within a club should be inclusive of all.

Yes they are a newbie, yes on the first ride-out they may need a little sheparding, but the 2nd ride-out, the one they have iniated because they liked it so much, that ultimate ride-out with what turns out to be your "perfect day" and you miss out on that because you don't care to share a little of your own experience once in a while I would doubt very much if you got a newbie on every ride-out so it would only be once in a while, it can't be too much to ask of you on the odd occasion can it

Maybe the newbie will not like the style of riding you do and would prefer to go on another rideout with a differnt style and so you don't see them again, but at least give them that first chance


As for being eliteist, find me a 20 mile road where I can get my knee down on every corner .... no second's thoughts, maybe you could. I suspect that's the type of riding you enjoy, and fair play to you, it's not mine I like to view the scenery on the way through, there's no elitism in either fashion, each to their own

The quickest way to hack off newcomers is to ignore them (dont like the expression 'newbie'!

In fact, newcomers should be actively encouraged and members should go out of their way to make them feel welcome. Well thats my view anyway!!....what would I know, .......Im just a sad old git!!

This is an interesting subject on many levels.

I don't think that anyone should be ignored at a club - whether new or not.

Newcomers should be, as Chris has said, made particlarly welcome and encouraged to come again. It can be daunting walking into a club where you don't know anyone (or perhaps just one) and there is only one opportunity to make (and take) a first impression. It should be cherished at all times and given your best shot.

As for the rideouts.. I don't ride... yet... but I would hope that when I do that if I were to participate in an organised ride, that the others in the group would appreciate my newness and inexperience and make some allowances... i.e. don't go hacking off at great speed and split up and lose me/leave me behind, don't expect me to risk my newly achieved license by breaking the law etc..

I know that one branch are planning to have a 'novices run' out to help newly qualified riders get used to riding in a group and using the 'drop off' system. This sounds to me like a great idea.

Surely riding as part of a group means sticking together, watching out for each and every rider who takes part, and ensuring (as best you can) that everyone has a good (and safe) ride.

A lot of runs have a gentle (ie. within the law) ride to the destination then it's each to their own on the way back (time to blat if that's what floats your own particular boat).

Surely the idea of a club is to meet socially and partake in an activity with people of a like mind with respect to that activity

couldn't agree more Alan, and, without newcomers a club cannot grow and develop and continue to thrive. So often things can stagnate in clubs and you can end up with a clique of unwelcoming, inflexible riders with a stand-offish attitude that makes it incredibly difficult for any newcomers to feel at home and so they come for a week or maybe 2 and then vanish.

The HOC isn't about that thank goodness... but it's an easy trap to fall into.

At the end of the day if you love bikes and want to spend time with others who share that love of 'em and want to go out for a ride with them then brilliant - but make sure you have a group mentality when in a group.

I agree with the comments - most important to make new and existing members feel welcome and as secretary, I find myself hopping round folk to ensure everyone is chatted to - although most of our Branch are pretty good at mixing - but you do have to bear in mind that some folk find it difficult to start up a conversation with someone they have not yet got to know......so it is up to us more extravert characters to 'pick up' those who are on their own.

On ride outs the less experienced are made welcome and the drop off system is good for this as they can remain at the back, near the tail ender but I do know of one Branch who do gentle rides to places of interest for the less experienced which again sounds a good idea - although when I suggested split rides at Oxford, it was voted out - rather stick together and I must say we do have a good fun atmosphere during our ride outs!

I think we are all in agreement!

.... Being a shy 'wallflower' myself, I always enjoy talking with you Erica! you always manage to bring me out of my shell!

Chris'TR' wrote:I think we are all in agreement!

.... Being a shy 'wallflower' myself, I always enjoy talking with you Erica! you always manage to bring me out of my shell!

She has the same effect on me ... and.. as Erica knows... I too am the shy retiring type....

Shellshine wrote:As for the rideouts.. I don't ride... yet... but I would hope that when I do that if I were to participate in an organised ride, that the others in the group would appreciate my newness and inexperience and make some allowances... i.e. don't go hacking off at great speed and split up and lose me/leave me behind, don't expect me to risk my newly achieved license by breaking the law etc..
Surely riding as part of a group means sticking together, watching out for each and every rider who takes part, and ensuring (as best you can) that everyone has a good (and safe) ride.

I well remember my first ride with the Bristol Branch. I was not inexperienced in any way (riding by then for 15 years). The ride leader said where we were going and roughly the route. OK with that, as I knew the roads. No handout or anything. Then he was off, on his CBR1000F, at silly,illegal speeds. I was at the back, no drop-off system etc.
I was doing well over 100 at times to keep up (not fun on a CX500!) and some in front of me were having difficulty. When we stopped for a break, the ride leader thought it was highly amusing. Oh, I forgot to mention..............he was a copper on bikes in the traffic dept. Speed limits didn't seem to bother him.

Shellshine wrote:A lot of runs have a gentle (ie. within the law) ride to the destination then it's each to their own on the way back (time to blat if that's what floats your own particular boat).

My planned rides are all legal, and I write out a route sheet with road numbers and towns along the way, and the ultimate destination. That way, if anyone does decide to go off on their own they can, but I'm not that keen that they do. I once went on a ride with another club (now defunct) and when were were at our destination, the ride leader said he was not going to hang around, and promptly left, leaving the rest to make out own way back, without a route sheet. Thanks, pal!

Surely the idea of a club is to meet socially and partake in an activity with people of a like mind with respect to that activity

That is exactly the point I was trying to make on the other topic. Something for everyone, but not all at the same time.
You seem to advocating everyone should reduce their riding enjoyment to the level of the most inexperienced. To think that a rider can become 'experienced' after just a couple of ride outs is wishful thinking. With new inexperienced members constantly joining the group, the ride outs will remain at novice level.

I have lead ride outs with riders of mixed ability. In order to be able to judge the riding pace, I invited the less experienced or slower rider to stay close behind me at the front. Rather than ever becoming 'second man' they were instructed to follow my actions by 'pointing' at turning points where a more experienced rider would stop to indicate a turning point.

If ever there was evidence that you cant please all the people at the same time, these rides were it.

1) the inexperienced and slow riders were reluctant to take up a position close behind me.
With the riders immediately behind me close up and insight, I could not see the great gaps that were appearing further down the line of bikers. It was only when I ran out of 'second' riders and I had to stop that the gaps became apparent. The experienced riders were not happy.

It was only when I pointed out that overtaking was acceptable that the ride got into any rhythm but it did mean an even longer gap before 3 or 4 riders turned up being shepherded by the back marker. The more experienced riders were happier but the slower riders were upset at being left behind and the back marker was just pi**ed off!

After a couple of these rides, I made it quite clear that I would only lead experienced riders.

Fortunately these were/are others in the club that seem to enjoy demonstrating their superior experience and like to lead the slower or less experienced riders. It so happens that these slower or less experienced riders were often the same people who enjoyed visiting 'interesting places'.

Whilst many of the more experienced riders were more interested in the ride.

Some members argued that having two groups in a club - in fact many riders moved from group to group, depending upon how they felt that day - caused a split. My argument was, and still is, that it offered a choice of motorcycling enjoyment.
For a club to flourish it need to attract all sorts of riders: The campers, the tinkerers, the tourers, the learners, the slow riders, the average riders - which is most of us, the fast sports bike riders.

Just don't try to bunch them all together when it comes to ride outs. The exception to this is for what I think of as a 'parade'. When all sorts of bikers get together to take a relatively short ride to some specific event.

As for being elitist, find me a 20 mile road where I can get my knee down on every corner .... no second's thoughts, maybe you could. I suspect that's the type of riding you enjoy,

It is not my style of riding either - neither my Varadero or Transalp are 'knee down' friendly!
But I do not have a problem with riders who think 20 miles is a good ride - with or without their knees down. To suggest you would not even bother putting your boots on for a 20 mile ride, is rather dismissive of those who would.
Unless of course you are like me and getting all your biking kit on is such a struggle that it really is not worth doing for a 20 mile ride. That is why I often ride locally in just my ordinary clothes and shoes.

With regard to club nights. I have found that those with the most in common do tend to bunch together. Many of us do make a point of inviting a new member to sit and chat. Sometimes they 'click' other times, you can almost see their eyes glazing over! At that point I usually introduce them to another bunch who I think they may have more in common.

I can't get over how much mileage people can get out of talking about their riding tests or how dogmatic riders can become so early in their riding career - it is a signal for me to take my pint outside and have a puff of my pipe

Red V Four - Sounds like you've had a pretty raw end of the deal couple of experiences there - let's hope they were not 'the norm' and that folks are more considerate (as your planned runs sound) these days.

Barry - I've read your post (as always) with keen interest. You're right of course, about the need for diversity of riders and skill sets.. also perhaps a good plan to have rides to suit differing needs, given the comments from some of the riders I've known over the years - they would agree with your back marker and with your 'experienced riders' frustrations... that said... there surely must be a middle ground somewhere along the line.. perhaps a split ride to the same destination ? Thus all get a ride out and meet up and everyone's (hopefully) happy.

Perhaps it just boils down to that old adage about not being able to please all of the people all of the time....

As for you not putting the proper kit on to ride locally - more fool you.

My friend's son was involved in a major bike crash, on his way home, last Thursday within walking distance of his front door - he lost his spleen and a kidney and is still in intensive care..... accidents can happen anywhere... my crash years ago wasn't far from home, had I been in ordinary shoes I would have lost my right foot instead of just a couple of toes... as tempting as it gets, it ain't worth the risk.

Enjoy your pint and pipe

Shellshine wrote:let's hope they were not 'the norm' and that folks are more considerate (as your planned runs sound) these days.

From the lack of response to his rides, it sounds as if he is never likely to find out. Just as well that he is not doing the 'task' for Alan Sugar

As for you not putting the proper kit on to ride locally - more fool you.

I am never too impressed by third party accounts of incidents - you never get the full story. I prefer to go by my own experience. Had my first serious incident on a bike when I was 16 - my fault. Had my second serious incident 56 years later - probably my fault. If I am foolish, I must be very lucky!;o)

Barry wrote:

If I am foolish, I must be very lucky!;o)

You are very lucky.

As we all know - accidents happen regardless of how good a rider you are - or believe yourself to be. Other road users are very often the cause. My point was that just because you are staying local doesn't mean you are any safer or less vulnerable and should therefore take any unecessary shortcuts on safety.

As to clothing, I also remember a new-ish rider turnung up on a Honda Shadow (I think) wearing tee-shirt, shorts and open-toed sandals.
He was aware that a helmet was a legal obligation! We asked him if he was serious or just winding us up, wearing our leathers etc, but no, he went from Bristol to Weymouth like it. It was a very hot day, mind...............Turned out he wasn't too bad a rider, but I remember we were very conscious of his vulnerability if he came off. Good job we didn't have "speedy-copper" along.

Shellshine wrote:My point was that just because you are staying local doesn't mean you are any safer or less vulnerable and should therefore take any unecessary shortcuts on safety.

Statistically, you are more likely to have an accident locally, as that it where most of your journeys start and finish, wherever you are going or coming from.
Also, you can become blase with roads you are familar with.

Well, av to put my 'sixpence' in cos a very interesting subject!

Im for the looking after inexperienced riders and certainly not putting them in situations where they cross the line into unknown territory just to keep up! I think that it is irresponsible of leaders and/or group to push them. In fact, we should be aware of the experience of riders and ride accordingly. The drop off method will take pressure off and I for one advocate that as a great system.!

I agree with Barry (flippin heck!) that sometimes, poor or inexperienced riders might 'spoil' an event but hey! its still fun and we should not get too worried! Ultimately, we all started somewhere and we all have different riding styles and experience. The point is, that we all enjoy the same things so 'live and let live' is my view! Would hate to be on a run when someone pushes beyond their capability (seen it!) and ends up aving an accident! think I can speak for us all on that one!

To suggest you would not even bother putting your boots on for a 20 mile ride, is rather dismissive of those who would

Yes, I guess, in the same way as you are being dismissive of newbies (sorry Chris, newcomers) because they cause big gaps in your rideouts.

Oh no, we are not so differrent after all

It's Barry's perogative to wear ordinary clothes, that dosn't make him a fool as I'm sure he knows the risks in so doing, a fool would be, to my mind, the person that dosn't understand the reason for protective bike gear and never wears the right gear.

I'm hoping SWMBO is going to buy me some Draggin' Jeans for my birthday, best of both worlds